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Do Californians care more about the rights of animals than gays?
November 7th, 2008, 12:23 pm · 67 Comments · posted by Pat Brennan, green living, environment editor
Chickens and other farm animals will be able to move more freely with the passage of Prop. 2. Gay couples would be barred from marrying with the passage of Prop. 8.
Some, such as Samantha Ronson, a DJ best known as the girlfriend of Lindsay Lohan, see an uncomfortable parallel: voters care more about the rights of animals than the rights of gays and lesbians. 
Prop. 8 passed 52 percent to 48 percent in California. Prop. 2 passed 63 percent to 37 percent. In Orange County, Prop. 8 passed 57 percent to 42 percent; Prop. 2 passed 59 percent to 40 percent.
On a Nov. 5 MySpace blog post, Ronson said she thinks “it’s frightening that people show more compassion for tomorrow’s dinner than for the chef.”
That is causing an eruption of discussion on the Web. It prompted a response from the animal rights group, People for the Ethical Treatment of animals.
“Abusing animals is always wrong, and discriminating against gays is always wrong,” the PETA response said, quoting a letter the group sent to Ronson. “We’ll continue to fight against the ban on gay marriage, and we hope that we can have your support in our efforts to eliminate cruelty to animals.”
We’d like to know your thoughts, Orange County.
Related posts:
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- With defeat of Props. 10 and 7, what’s next for alternative energy?
- O.C. reacts: Abortion notification measure fails again
- Deep religious feelings drove O.C. approval of Prop. 8
- Poll: What do you think of the alternative energy propositions?
- All Elections coverage
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How stupid is this question.
The better question would be, Do Californians care more what’s best for animals than the raising of children?
I thought the same thing… it’s also ironic that the black and latino populations (minorities) voted to pass prop 8.
No one’s discriminating against gays. They already have civil unions. People just don’t believe a gay union is a marriage. It’s a civil union.
Why does Samantha Ronson look like a 14 year old boy dying of AIDS?
Most people don’t want people getting wedding licences to wed there Chickens and other farm animals. Marriage is between a man and a woman. not two men and not two woman and not between man and farm animals or woman and farm animals. How long will it be befor the newspapers and the gay communities understand that this is perverted?.
thank God we dont have all the animals protesting like all the no on 8 people
Californians don’t want gays and lesbians to get married, therefore they’re haters. They shouldn’t mind explaining that their wives are females, their husbands are males, and that they are straight. Nope, that’s asking too much.
No one is discriminating against gays. If wanted to keep some morality left in this world is what you call it then yes
Prop 8 is not discrimination. Everyone doesn’t qualify to be a doctor, and therefore they are not issued certificates that state they are doctors. Being married involves meeting the qualifications set forth by societies around the world for the last 5000 years.
Yes!
You’re comparing whether animals should be able to stand up in their cages with whether homosexuals should be able to use the word “marriage”. Health of food animals *IS* more important than a word.
And homosexuals have the same right as everyone else — they CAN get married. To someone of the opposite sex, of course. Apparently they’d just prefer not to.
Yeah that’s it. What a stupid headline.
Comparing the two issues are irrelevant since we all humans can move around and not subjected to confinement. With an exception of being in prison.
Best way to fight is to take it back to the ballot.
It’s actually very simple. Homosexuality is a perverse and immoral act. Individuals can obviously engage in this act if they so choose. But mainstream average Americans see it for what it is and do not want to legitimize and mainstream it’s acceptance in society. Marriage is a holly and historic union that should not be tainted to appease a small immoral minority.
I know something even worse… Californians care more for chickens than unborn babies.
Women are given the right to choose; unfortunately they choose to not use protection. (saying it shouldn’t be up to them is a poor reason), and then decide to kill their unborn baby.
Homsexuals also have a right to choose; they choose to sin. It starts as a thought, then a desire, then lust, finally sin. (This comes from a family member). It doesn’t matter that some “preachers” will join them in what will only ever be a civil union, it will never be accepted nor tolerated by God or scripture.
A final note to those that hate homosexuals; Hate the sin, love the sinner; God does. He is longsuffering for them to repent, but the day they draw their last breath and refuse to confess their sin and repent (like all sinners), then they are lost.
And what about the rights of those of us who believe that marriage is and always has been between a man and a woman? 50 years ago, or even less, citizens would have laughed at considering that one day “marriage” would include people of the same sex being married.
Words are supposed to mean something. When someone describes something as red, I know what color they are speaking of. I don’t need a definition. When the California Government Code was written and where it discusses “marriage” the writers knew what was meant by marriage and did not think the word had to be defined. Why should they? It was common knowledge that marriage was between a man and a women.
If proposition 8 is overturned by the courts should we be concerned that in another 40 years the controversy will be concerning whether “marriage” means a man is able to marry his goat? Or is bestiality even too much for the sodomite supporters?
The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) wants the age of sexual consent for males to be reduced to 12 or 14, some even less. Is that what is awaiting us? Will we re-define what a child is?
OK, first I voted No on 8 and Yes on 2. So I am for gay rights but to compare the to bothers me. I would have liked for 8 to not have passed and unfortunately it did. But I don’t think these two issues are at all related. The issue of Prop 2 was for humane treatment of animals. For them to have a decent quality of life, not to be trapped in a cage suffering. I’m sitting at my desk at work and by the end of the day my neck hurts and my back hurts from being stuck in the same position. BUT I choose to sit behind a computer and I can walk around and stretch and get a massage to help my discomfort. These animals don’t have this option and are at the hands of human beings to decide their fate. Personally, I don’t eat chicken or eggs from restaurants because I assume it isn’t free range. I don’t want to eat something that isn’t raised humanely not just because I don’t want to support the farms they come from but also because I think the quality is inferior. Cages stacked on top of one another where they go to the bathroom on each other isn’t sanitary and the fact that chicken raised in cages has high cancer rates due to the stress they endure in the conditions is also another factor. I only want to eat clean healthy food. Shame on Samantha Ronson in comparing the two. So because she can’t be in a marriage she thinks animals should suffer? Like “well I didn’t get my way so they shouldn’t either!” Gosh, she seems quite selfish. Like I said earlier, I am in favor of gay people being allowed to marry but I can’t see the correlation between the right to marry and animal suffering. Grow up Samantha, no wonder nobody likes you, you do not represent your community very well!
In one word, Yes. I am all for animal rights, BUT I think so many people are obsessed with animal rights, they neglect the fact that there are MILLIONS of HUMANS dying without water, food, and shelter in this world. This has become a cult, PETA, come on!! It is ridicolous, save HUMANS first then ANIMALS.
Animals were being locked up in pens so they could not move. The prop frees them, thus allowing them the right to move. Gays are not locked in pens or prevented from enjoying civil unions and all the legal/financial benefits that come with a civil union. Therefore prop 8 does not prevent them any rights they do not already have. But, if you want to start locking gays up in pens, I’m sure proposition to do so would fail by a large margin.
Yes, Prop 2 and Prop 8. The parallels are staggering, a real apples to apples comparison.
Yes, its a slow news day folks.
@ caseclosed you make me sick.
ARe these animals gay? That would determine my vote.
I think this is true. And even with civil unions, the rights are not the same. My best friend is a gay man who has a long term relationship and civil union with a CFO who went to the emergency room last month fearing a heart attack. My friend was not allowed into the ER to see him, nor would they release any information about his status to him. His partner’s mother had to call the hospital from back East to relay information to my friend.
That would not happen if gay marriage were legal.
In another case in Florida, a woman on vacation with her female partner of 18 years and 3 of their 4 children died alone in the hospital of a brain aneurysm because the hospital refused to acknowledge the woman’s life partner and their children as family.
That would not happen if gay marriage was legal.
Where is everyone’s heart? For those who hide behind the Bible as defining marriage, is this what you think God would want? It’s wrong. Plain and simple. What on earth are you afraid of?
Wow, you morons are still using the “man marrys animal” BS? This is not about people who want to marry a lamp, it’s about two humans who want to get married. I swear you religious people are stupid. It’s a matter of civil rights. Just like womens rights, and just like black rights, and just like the rights of all humans. The only reason this is an issue is because of the religious bigots. Mormons are allowed to marry multiple women, Babtists can marry 9 year olds, and Catholics can rape boys but those gays can’t be equal to us.
You know what…people aren’t born Mormon…they choose to be Mormon. That is why I support banning marriage between a Mormon and a Mormon. Hell, there are civil unions. They can go get one of those instead. How long will it be before the newspapers and the Mormon communities understand that being Mormon is perverted?
Yes on 8 put on a despicable campaign of blatant lies and deceit. Religious extremists claim to be the moral right of society, yet they tirelessly engage in sin to get their way. Leviticus 19:11 reads, “Do not lie, do not deceive one another.” Yes on 8 said Prop 8 would force schools to teach their children about same-sex marriage as they paraded their own children in yellow shirts holding Yes on 8 signs. Yes on 8 claimed children were forced to attend a same-sex wedding and used images of children without their parent’s permission – children whose parents signed permission slips for the event. Leviticus 19:15 reads, “Do not pervert justice…but judge your neighbor fairly.” Churches can define holy union anyway they wish, but civil marriage is licensed by the state. Gay people have the same human needs, hopes, and dreams as everyone else, yet Yes on 8 did everything possible to dehumanize gays. Leviticus 19: 16 reads, “Do not go about spreading slander among your people…Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life.” Yes on 8 compared being gay to be#ti#lity, child molestation, and said that gays choose to be gay. I’ve researched and read through some of the religious websites on the “truth about homosexuals” and was completely horrified by the absurd claims and totally biased and/or manufactured facts. Yes on 8 sought to increase homophobia, which put gay people in danger. Yes on 8 lied to California and violated the very sacraments religious people claim to cherish.
The Bible is filled with God’s laws and passages, many of which are completely discarded today. The church claims morals never change, but societies and civil laws change over time. The church clings to a handful of passages that suggest God sees homosexuality as a sin, even though Jesus never said it. Would having lustful feelings not be a moral issue? Would masturbation not be a moral issue? The Bible orders you to gouge or eyes out or cut off your hands. It’s absurd and ridiculous and so is clinging to the fact that homosexuality is a sin.
The evil and ugliness behind Prop 8 sicken me.
…huh, what a question, like apples and oranges, not in the same basket!
I think Pat Brennan is bored. Too much time in your hands, huh.
“Mike Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
And what about the rights of those of us who believe that marriage is and always has been between a man and a woman? 50 years ago, or even less, citizens would have laughed at considering that one day “marriage” would include people of the same sex being married.
Words are supposed to mean something. When someone describes something as red, I know what color they are speaking of. I don’t need a definition. When the California Government Code was written and where it discusses “marriage” the writers knew what was meant by marriage and did not think the word had to be defined. Why should they? It was common knowledge that marriage was between a man and a women.
If proposition 8 is overturned by the courts should we be concerned that in another 40 years the controversy will be concerning whether “marriage” means a man is able to marry his goat? Or is bestiality even too much for the sodomite supporters?
The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) wants the age of sexual consent for males to be reduced to 12 or 14, some even less. Is that what is awaiting us? Will we re-define what a child is?”
Come on! You’re comparing a goat to a human being? Seriously? Sounds as though you’re stating that Gays and Lesbians have no rights at all. This is Reminiscent of racial discrimination.
People, don’t fall for this baited question. This is a stupid question honestly. Notice how the website really hasn’t been posting any real good or numerous articles lately? So they need a fluff story to keep people posting and hitting their site since they have very little real news to report. That is because they are not going out and hunting for these stories. I think this website has “jumped the shark” with this stupid article. The OC REgister has sunk even lower down the resectable scale.
This is a really interesting and lively discussion; thanks to everyone who is taking part. Please remember, though, that we want to keep it civil and avoid demeaning other people, and avoid name-calling. There actually hasn’t been much of that, but just a reminder.
Gays already are recognized under DOMESTIC PARTNERS by law. What’s the fit over a piece of paper.
Idiotic comparison!! Who writes these things?
no… Californians do not care more about chickens than humans. The voters who voted Yes on 8 voted out of fear and an uneducated bigotry, so this would imply that the very slim majority of Californians are more afraid of a loving gay couple than they are of chickens being outside of their cages. Chickens outside of their cages can be a scary thing - but apparently Californians are more afraid of gay people.
LilyC above cites some LEGITIMATE arguments in favor of gay marriage and a strong (asexual) example of why it should be recognized, the type that should have been used in the No on 8 campaign.
I voted No on 8, and let me say that the oppononents of 8 did AN ABSOLUTELY LOUSY JOB of arguing their cause. Arguments in favor of gay marriage, in order to be persuasive to voters regardless of their sexual orientation or bias, require intelligent, fact-based, unemotional representation. Instead, your approach was the sophomoric “No on H8″ (hate) campaign, attempting to win simply by portraying the Yes folks as archaic bigots. Bad strategy, may have prompted some Yes votes simply because you ticked them off.
Perhaps if you did a better job of educating the straight world about your PRACTICAL issues (such as LilyC’s example), instead of the “it just ain’t right” tantrums we’re seeing post election, you would attain some credibility and majority support .
I think a lot of people didn’t understand Prop 2 in the first place.
I can’t have compassion for a lifestyle that I can’t identify with. IMO, friendships are fundamentally different from male/female love relationships. Exclusive orientation on people of the same sex is possibly caused by a psychological development disorder. Get some help instead of marrying.
In the sixties, Martin Luther King was assassinated for trying to get equal rights for minorities. 40 yrs. later, a black man is elected to the highest office in the land. Things change, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. Someday, gay marriage may be acceptable to enough people and the gays will get equal rights. Obviously, the majority of voters in this state aren`t ready to accept gay marriage, and no amount of protesting is going to change that. Time will or will not. As far as Samantha Ronson`s opinion, please…… would it even be in the news if she wasn`t in a high profile relationship with somebody who is rather notorious/famous?
For all of those that are for Prop 8 based on religious reasons your argument is moot, it’s called seperation of church and state. Thanks to you Religious Right wacko’s, who prefer to live their lives by a 2,000 year old book compiled by playing the telephone game, my Republican Party is a joke and will be until we kick you ignorant people out and let the party enter the 21st century. This argument is semantics. Marriage is just a word. If the government chooses not to be blind to sexual orientation on this matter then lets open everything up to classification by sex, race, sexual orientation and religion. Sue for the rights to the word “marriage” and make the government reclassify marriage by a different term, I have no problem with that. Having two terms for the exact same benefits is ridiculous.
The question shouldn’t be Californians but it should be “The Church”. This is basically the church imposing its beliefs on other people.
Domestic partners don’t have the same rights as married people!
Arkansas, for example, just passed a law banning unmarried people from adopting. They made clear that their target were homosexuals.
johnadams,
No, Prop 8 isn’t about civil rights.
People with both hetero- and homosexual feelings have the SAME right (to marry someone of opposite gender). But nobody has to.
“No on 8″ wants a NEW right — the right to “marry” the same gender. “The people” would rather not create this new kind of marriage.
And several of you, on both sides focused on the old testament limitations on sex. Feel free to base your politics on your religion if you want to — but don’t assume that EVERYONE bases their politics on a particular evangelical interpretation of the Bible. An awful lot of us just voted for whether we wanted to expand the definition of marriage to homosexuality or to leave it heterosexual.
For us, it has nothing to do with some zealotous minister or priest choosing the subset of the 613 Mitzvot (old testament rules) that God has told them are still in effect. Rather, it’s just whether we want “that” to be “marriage”.
And you know that it DOES come up in the schools. Our public schools have a bewildering array of mandatory “niceness” rules they comply with. In my district, it is currently an *expellable* offense to call someone “gay” on the playground. (Though the kids do, anyway.) I haven’t figured out how to even talk about Prop 8, on school property, without getting expelled.
If Prop 8 failed, the CA curriculum would absolutely have to expand to show “families” of people with two daddies or two mommies, just like it has expanded so far to show single parents, divorced parents, and other situations. In an attempt to “include” children, in real life from every situation, into the stories in textbooks, they STILL might have to change the teachings so that, if a kid comes from a “domestic partner” kind of family, they see their family depicted in stories too.
Oh, and I want the word “gay” back, meaning “happy” and “convivial”.
The Gay ’90s.
The Gay Divorcee.
Gay Purr-ee.
Don we now our Gay apparel.
THEN we can have a gay marriage!
It is ridiculous these two issues would be compared to each other and even more ridiculous that it is reported on. It’s just another attempt by the media to sway public opinion.
It saddens me to see the lack of critical thinking skills demonstrated by the thoughtless and prejudicial comments of this page. They are mostly based on ignorance, insensibility, and lack of reasoning. Hatred is evident and the justifications that people use to excuse it are totally void of substance. I thought we had evolved. Too bad half our population hasn’t. Lord, please save America from the “Christian” Taliban!
Who CARES what she thinks? She is nobody.
Oh, and yes, I’d rather that animals have a comfortable life before they are humanely slaughtered.
Samantha Ronson is just mad she cant marry her little meal ticket.
My frickin bacon and egg prices better not go up!
“Bacon tastes Gooooood!…..porkchops taste gooooooood!” - John Travolta in Pulp Fiction
Thoughtless words and empty arguments based on insensibility and embedded in ignorance and arrogance is what I read on the side of those who voted for Prop. Hate.
“And what about the rights of those of us who believe that marriage is and always has been between a man and a woman?”
Uhm– you see, the thing is– no one said that, if Prop 8 hadn’t passed, your marriage would be INVALIDATED and that you would have to marry someone of the same sex. Your rights are, always have been and ALWAYS WILL BE PROTECTED. That is why we have the Constitution. Your argument is invalid.
It is fine if you see gays as immoral or wrong. We don’t care how you FEEL about us. We FEEL some pretty angry things about YOU sometimes. If Prop 8 had been defeated, you could still FEEL HATRED AND BIGOTRY toward us and we would take it– the same as we always had.
This is not a freedom of speech issue or a mere “difference of opinion”. You will always have the right to tell us that we are wrong and we RESPECT that right.
What we believe is that NO ONE in America has the right to TAKE OTHER PEOPLE’S RIGHTS AWAY.
If you believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, the best, most rational way to stand up for that belief is to MARRY SOMEONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX.
And if you believe that your children should learn that marriage is between a man and a woman, then TEACH YOUR CHILDREN. They are YOUR children, not ours. It is YOUR job to set examples for them and teach them what you believe is wrong. If, to you, our public schools are babysitters and moral thought police, then it is you who are failing your children, not our schools. Because the job of our schools is to educate, not indoctrinate. Your religious beliefs belong in your places of worship and in your homes, NOT IN THE SCHOOLS.
We will have our rights back– we gave you the chance to do the right thing and you failed us, but we will not go away. We are your friends, your family, your neighbors. We live in your communities and we pay taxes just like you. And we WILL have all of the RIGHTS and PRIVILEGES that ALL Californians and ALL AMERICANS enjoy.
I don’t think Prop 8 had anything to do with keeping gay people in cages that are too small for them or being treated inhumanely while awaiting harvesting for food.
Maybe Californians just believed that Homosexuals being human beings should be expected to live up to a higher standard than animals - and that standard meant you shouldn’t marry someone of your own sex. Some animal species are stupid enough that they don’t know better and therefore by them having Gay sex their species would just die off. We has human beings know better. So this is just a dumb comparison.
I think that Proposition 8 is not about “hatred”, but about just not being able to identify with the homophile lifestyle. Why should I politically support relationships that I don’t understand from my own experiences?! That would be gambling with tradition, civilisation and tax money. I don’t care much for them, but I don’t hate them.
As a Asian-American, who voted for Obama I am so proud of the LDS, the African American Community, and the Latino community for drawing the line between what we want our American standards to be and not allow the Gay agenda to dictate what societal standards should be.
Gay marriage just isn’t natural. Our Creator made us male and female for a purpose, to unite and to pro-create. Can you imagine if people started wanting to marry animals too? Sounds ridiculous, but really, this is just about defining parameters and boundaries for what constitutes marriage and traditional family in our society. It has nothing to do with discrimination or hate. The family unit has a purpose in our society. It’s a known fact that when family’s function properly with moms and dads, the benefits are incredible. Thanks OC for protecting marriage and family!
If male farm animals tried to have sex with male farm animals they probably would be put down for deviant behavior.
I’m against gay chicken marriages too.
silly question, how can one even pose such a thing, and why does this belong in the “green oc” blog. I came here to read about earth stuff not gay stuff.
and that dude in the picture needs to try to crack a smile just once.
That’s comparing apples to oranges. How about we simply point out the fact that civil unions do not equal marriage in terms of symbolism, but more important, legal benefits. Marriage has a lot more benefits than civil unions do. A simple google search will reveal to you the long list. Those saying that gays should be content with a civil union don’t seem to realize that it’s not the same as marriage. Maybe if civil unions were equal to marriage, homosexuals wouldn’t have as big an issue with the passing of Prop 8.
Problem with Prop 8 is that, now that it’s passed, the extremists will now go after invaliding current marriages between gay couples. After that they’ll probably go after any kids that gay couples have adopted. Who knows where it’ll go from there. Letting this proposition pass is also opening the door to being able to violate more rights of the gay community and the rights of other minorities.
It’s not an either/or situation. What a ridiculous analogy. The issue of animals being tortured did not defeat gay marriage in California. Many gay people (those who extend their compassion beyond their own species) were involved in the Prop 2 campaign as well. And what’s even more ironic is that Samantha Ronson just doesn’t strike you as someone who’s all about compassion for people, anyway. It’s always those who are the last to care about people who bring up that moronic argument when it comes to animals, what about people? You can bet that the large majority (just about all) the people who were actively involved in the Prop 2 campaign voted No on Prop 8. So why is she begrudging the animals? Blame the idiots who voted Yes. She’s also misinformed. Those chickens that are “gonna die anyway” (nice) are alive for 2 years laying eggs squished into cages where they can’t even move their wings or limbs. How would she like it if she and her fur-wearing girlfriend, Lindsay were crammed into a cage and not able to move for 2 years? Lindsay surrounds herself with winners. Her “Christian” father was showing off his intelligence and compassion on Howard Stern the other day. How much longer do we have to endure idiots like these getting so much attention in the news and being role models for kids? Our society should be much more informed and compassionate by now when it comes to animals, but then you have brainiac “celebrities” like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan standing in the way.
right what a lie and hypocrisy!!!!
DID YOU FORGET ABOUT PROP 4????
The title should be: Do people of CA care more bout the rights of chickens than rights of UNBORN HUMANS???
Give me a break!!!
Dear ‘Logic” [which you may know nothing of], you said:
“What we believe is that NO ONE in America has the right to TAKE OTHER PEOPLE’S RIGHTS AWAY.”
Oh, really. So, should we grant marriage for those involved in pedophilia, necrophilia, incest, polygamy, polyandry, and bestiality?
Now, reexamine your LOGIC, and tell me, my friend, what sort of society you advocate? Barbarism?
Thank you, but did you know that you do NOT have a right to drive on the left side of the road? Oh, my, your right was taken from you.
You can go and protest DMV.
First of all, what kind of character do you people have, injuring people who voted Yes on Prop. 8 and saying terrible things about them? Everyone has a right to their beliefs and you shouldn’t judge or bash them for it. Second, marriage is a religious word. Considering pretty much all religions believe that being gay is a sin, and marriages are performed by priests/pastors/bishops, etc. that don’t believe in “alternative lifestyles”, why would any gay or lesbian want to get “married”? Couples with civil unions are given the same rights as those who are married because, in essence, it is the same.
And please get your facts straight about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints aka Mormon Church, before you start bashing. You people just sound like idiots when you say “Mormons have four wives; I can’t have one?” The mainstream Mormon church that everyone is protesting, does not believe or practice polygamy and hasn’t for over 100 years. Educate yourselves.
Simple answer is No, we care about Gay people just like straight people, but we don’t want out kids growing up thinking that it is the norm
ABSOLUTELY!! Califoria and the rest of America care more for animals than gay. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE. An animal has only what options that we allow, however right or wrong you feel. As long as man has been, there has been marriage between man and woman. That is the norm, that’s what’s accepted, that is reality.
GAYS WANTING THE RIGHT TO MARRIAGE IS LIKE A BASEBALL PLAYER WANTING TO PLAY IN THE SUPERBOWL…YOU CHOOSE THE WRONG SPORT.
If you want you can have a worldseries but a superbowl is for football players. You acknowledged the right to chose. So when you are denied the superbowl you know that it was and still is your choice to play whatever sport. So stop complaining, you always have Domestic Partnership.