Feds uphold state decision: toll road near Trestles appears dead
December 18th, 2008, 9:40 am · 122 Comments · posted by Pat Brennan, science, environment editor
The U.S. Commerce secretary agreed Thursday with the state Coastal Commission’s rejection of the proposed Foothill South toll road that would have passed through south Orange County as well as a state park.
(See announcement from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.)
The decision means the $1.3 billion proposal to extend the 241 toll road is effectively dead for now, although the possibility of a legal challenge remains open.
“We popped some champagne,” said Mark Rauscher of the Surfrider Foundation in San Clemente, a leader of the opposition to the toll road proposal. “Very cool.”
A major issue in the toll road fight has been whether any reasonable alternative — such as widening the I-5 freeway — exists. The Foothill/Eastern Transportation Corridor Agency argued that those options had been studied, and that the proposed route through San Onofre State Beach park was the best option.
The tollway builders also argued that the road was of national importance, and even in the interest of national security because improvements would be made around the Camp Pendleton Marine base.
The Commerce department found that at least one viable alternative existed — an 8.7 mile extension of 241 south from Oso Parkway to Avenida la Pata in San Clemente. The agency also found that the toll road “is not necessarily in the interest of national security.”
The agency can return to the Coastal Commission with another proposed toll road route, the Commerce department said, and it need not be the route identified by Commerce as a viable alternative.
Both sides said prior to the ruling that legal action was likely no matter who won. A spokeswoman said the toll road agency would have to analyze the Commerce department’s conclusions before deciding whether to take the matter to court.
The fight over the proposed toll road has raged for years; the tollway agency’s studies of the proposed route began 20 years ago.
Supporters said the road was needed to relieve future traffic congestion, and to complete the county’s network of toll roads. More recently, tollway agency officials said building the road would create 35,000 jobs.
Environmental activists, however, said the road would cause too much environmental harm. It would cut through San Onofre State Beach park, as well as through habitat for a variety of sensitive species, including the endangered Pacific pocket mouse.
Surfrider and other groups also contended that building the toll road could harm the famous surfing beach, Trestles, because of sediments washed downstream. The toll road agency said their studies showed just the opposite — that sediments would be tightly controlled, and there would be no effect on Trestles.
The conflict drew thousands to two hearings on the toll road proposal at the Del Mar Fairgrounds. The first, in February, ended in the toll road proposal’s defeat by the Coastal Commission.
The tollway agency appealed the ruling under the federal Coastal Zone Management Act, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, a branch of Commerce, held a second hearing in September.
Though more tightly controlled, and with only testimony and no decision scheduled, that hearing, like the first, was sometimes raucous, supporters and opponents crowding the meeting.
State Parks officials opposed the toll road, and state and federal legislators lined up on both sides.
The state Coastal Commission staff strongly opposed the proposal, saying it would violate the state Coastal Act and be too destructive of natural resources in a report recommending that the commission reject the project.
“We’re delighted, obviously,” said Coastal Commission executive director Peter Douglas. “And we’re really pleased that the secretary of Commerce agreed with the commission’s positions, both on procedural issues and the merits.”
Douglas — as well as other toll road opponents — said they were worried that because the decision was being made in the last days of the Bush Administration, it might be influenced by politics.
“When you look at the avalanche of last-minute decisions destructive of the environment that they’re trying to make on their way out, I was very concerned about that,” Douglas said.
But he and other opponents said the decision was made carefully on the merits of the case.
Whether the case would be carried further, through the court system, will be decided by the toll road agency, Douglas said.
“It’s up to them,” he said. “I suppose they could seek judicial review if they want to waste more public resources, which they’ve done for the last 15 years of this project. I would hope they would see this as the need to redirect their resources and energy.”
Another opponent, Dan Silver of the Endangered Habitats League, said he, too, feels it is time to move on.
“I think it’s time for everyone to put this route through the park behind them, and focus upon constructive solutions that will address the transportation issues,” he said. (Read more responses on the decision)
NEW: More responses from those involved in the controversy, pro and con.
Related links:
- Twitter aflutter with toll road talk
- Toll road overview, issues and arguments
- Players on both sides of the toll road issue
- Trestles timeline
- Wilderness in crossfire in toll road debate
- Coastal Commission rejects Foothill South toll road
- Toll-road hearing full of passion, but controlled
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- State adopts sweeping greenhouse gas reduction plan
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Thank goodness this toll road will NOT be built. LONG LIVE TRESTLES!!!!
Wow. Our federeal gov’t finally got something right. I am shocked by this.
What is the route Commerce said was viable?
Thanks for the quick report – what good news.
Bummer
yea , save trestles !
YEAH! There is a God!
That “viable” route the Commerce Secretary is talking about would dump all the traffic at Pico and take out about 100 homes going through the middle of San Juan Cap and Talega.
But at least we saved the Pacific Pocket Mouse! Yea!
Yes…”the tollway would create tens of thousands of jobs” You’ve got to be kidding!!! Where??? The tollway extension was just another fiasco waiting to happen. The 91 tollway was not profitable, the tollway owners couldn’t meet their bills, so they sold it to the State for a profit. If you remember, the State built the 91 toll road and sold it to the operators. So now, we have to foot the bill for the initial construction debt plus pay the bill to buyout the owners. Yep…the taxpayers are sucked in again by our terrific Legislators.
Our Federal Government did what they usually do. NOTHING. They are short sited. The roads now are overcrowded and with the expected growth of southern OC it will be worse. First step should have been the toll road followed right after by widening the 5. By the time that would be done it would still not be enough. By doing NOTHING it will be disastrous.
SOOOoooo… Let’s go surfing!!!
This is sad news. However, the decision has been made, so I will deal with it. I hope the tollroad agency doesn’t appeal the decision, but rather put its effort into finding an alternative route that is acceptable to the Coastal Commission.
Cool. More traffic for everyone!
Our State population just passed 38 million, and some are happy the toll road is dead. Soon the drive to San Diego, will mirror the drive to LA, slow, wasteful and frustrating.
They should have at least extended it to Ortega Highway
Oh you damn Hippies!!! Has anyone ever heard of progress. You act like this road was going to built right on the sand. Give me a break, this isn’t the 60′s and 70′s anymore. Granted you all are probably retired and just surfing all day, but the rest of us unfortunately have to work and myself along with probably hundreds of thousands of other people use this route to get to and from work or to see friends and family. So why don’t you guys stop being so selfish and start thinking of your fellow man that have to us this route. Also, think of the future generations that will now be stuck sitting on the freeway because their Grandparents were to worried about the waves man and themselves,
This is fantastic news for lovers of nature, the beach, and surfing. I spent my teens and early 20s surfing there and would hate to see such an ugly change that would only profit the highway builders.
I hope TCA finally starts working in a cooperative fashion with people now, instead of mulishly trying to ram the toll road down everyone’s throats. There are real options available – for example, the 5 can be widened from Pico north through San Clemente without seriously impacting the “Spanish Village” downtown area or a lot of other properties. The freeway needs widening only in that area, because the traffic through downtown San Clemente just doesn’t back up(except as overflow from problems further north, where the widening would have a positive effect). Bringing the 241 into existing major arterials, existing and proposed (La Pata or Pico/Vista Hermosa), makes a lot more sense, puts the highway where it’s actually needed, and protects the state park and the watershed.
My ultimate preference would be to abolish the toll roads, because people don’t take them in sufficient quantity to alleviate congestion on the 5. I also have moral (if you will) problems with apartheid-izing our transportation system. California got to be so big and prosperous so fast after World War II precisely because it adopted the freeway system well ahead of the rest of the country. That infrastructure, open to all, was a brilliant business move. Anyone who stops (as we all do) on the north 5 within a mile AFTER the 73 toll road branches off should reflect on that wisdom (Lord knows we have enough time every morning!).
Toll roads were a hobbyhorse of the conservative/libertarian bent of the area through the 80s and 90s – “those who use the roads should pay for them” – that ignored the fact that given the option people will always use the free-way as opposed to the toll-way, just as a matter of simple economics. The result is toll roads with criminal levels of underuse, and freeways with little if any traffic relief.
We all use roads, you see, so we all should pay – and through the tax and bond systems, we do. Toll roads are a false economy, and an inevitable failure.
traffic is horrible and getting worse through that are, something need to be done, i don’t know what, but something~
Move. That’s the answer.
Nice to know there is still some fiscal sense left in this state. Most people don’t understand how upside down the toll roads are on their bonds, how they have pushed our county very deep into debt with bad projections and failed executions, or how it will saddle us with bad payments for 100 years or more. The last thing we need is more financially mismanaged money pits.
It’s nice when the good guys win every now and then. Looking forward to enjoying Trestles with my kids for decades to come!
Finally, this agency that doesn’t come close to meeting it’s traffic projections and is on the brink of bankruptcy is told “No”. See their financial statements. Now let’s get rid of the TCA altogether.
This road was a horrible waste of money. The roads are financially unsound and degrade our quality of life in the urban sprawl sense of things. Folks now can turn their attention on more important and more effectivve ways to reduce congestion, promote alternative forms of transportation, widen existing routes and just try to do what we Americans have always done a pretty good job of; thinking outside the box. This lame project was dull-normal inside the box 1950 style transportation thinking— let’s move on for real now– finally!
How about widening Ortega Hwy? Would that be an environmental issue?
People from the east can take the 215, or 15 to San diego. No traffic.
It is amazing how lies and ignorant special interests win out over the truth when politicians don’t care about the people who live in South Orange County.
WOOHOO!!!
Thank God! The good guys actually win sometimes!
The TCA’s big bucks marketing plan might have swayed a few people, but it didn’t sway the ones that know the scoop!
Y E S ! ! !
So, I guess the SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS (PER MONTH) of our tax dollars that the TCA was spending to lobby the feds is just…..wasted. I sure hope they stop there, and don’t waste any more money on appeals.
Who cares about Trestles? This toll road was needed to save lives. We all are hurting the invironment so it does not fly. Build the road and lets get moving. I hope the Toll Road continues to fight this forever!!!
Big thanks go out to surfrider.org and savetrestles.com and all involved…
The tyranny of the minority……Thomas Jefferson
WHAT! No Loop Hole.
No new roads, no plan, nothing but traffic and stalled cars spewing smog. I’m sorry, but if you think that’s a win you’re all dumb as a rock.
YAY what great news!!!!!
p.s. Chris: I would say the toll roads were the minority… and we escaped thier tyranny! go back to your famous quotes book.
If you really want to save Trestles you can start by banning the surfers. They cause more ecological damage than this road would have.
Miraculously all the paid TCA bloggers went missing today & TCA had nothing prepared for press….Wonder why, they probably thought all those dollars they threw towards DC politicians would yield a done deal. Well for once the feds did the right thing. WE SAVED TRESTLES FOR THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!! NOW GO AWAY TCA!
Take that Arnie!
Long Live Trestles!
Surfers Rule!
Won’t be a traffic problem soon enough. No jobs means no commute.
I have been watching this issue for better than a DECADE. At least 12 years in fact. The idiotic doomsayers like “wake up san clemente” have been chicken littleing about how San Clemente would become a parking lot within a few years if the road wasn’t built. Well, I was just there and it didn’t seem like much of a parking lot to me. This road, from the get go was all about DEVELOPMENT. I-5 should have been widened a long time ago – there would have and will be far less environmental damage than building an unnecessary road through Trestles. Too bad we didn’t have the Surfrider Foundation around when Dana Point Harbor was proposed. Imagine what a paradise you’d have from the cove all the way around to Doheny without that concrete and boulder monstrosity. Good riddance TCA. Time to go surfing – for now and decades to come.
A bigger thanks goes out to all of you that wrote letters, showed up to meetings, and now see through nasty developer tricks of the trade. Most toll roads are just a fat cat for developers to open up inaccessible land for free, (Rancho Mission Viejo).
We need to keep a cautious guard up, and make sure the TCA dose not pull any fast land deals with the County or San Clemente. TCA is a big strong arm of the building industry here, and if you want proof read about a Newport Beach mitigation project (1988) called a two mile “public road” built by The Irvine Company to link PCH through Newport Coast. TCA tore it up! against all sides of reason and objection, and its still a toll road.
They spend OUR money like chicken feed to pay themselves while governing land away from the public. These are people that daily go beyond the limits to win and do it well.
We won a good battle, but TCA is still out there.
Trestles and San Mateo Creek need to be left as is.
Its a good feeling when our system listens to the majority and upholds written law.
Trestles forever!
Thank God! Common sense has trumped the almighty dollar (for once)! I’m so happy to see that the Feds had the intelligence and foresight to make the right decision. The LAST thing OC needs is yet another of the TCA’s financially-shaky, ineffective, and under-used toll highways…especially right through the middle of our state park!
Ha! If anyone has been “chicken littleling” it has been the surfers saying that this road would ruin the surf at Trestles. They literally just make this stuff up out of thin air as a scare tactic. Pathetic.
Unless you seriously believe that the population growth in Southern California will end, we need to address the traffic problem.
TCA has offered a solution, a road that will go around, not through the middle, of San Clemente. If you don’t like that solution, please tell me what your viable option would be?
Widen the I-5? Tell me where you get the money. Tell me who will knock on the doors of the 800 homes to tell them you’re bulldozing them to widen the freeway.
Connect the 241 at Pico? Please. Pico is already over congested now. I don’t think dumping thousands of more cars per day on that road will work.
C’mon folks! Give me some answers!
Awesome! oh, and for the people complaining about traffic ….. move. Our coastline and parks are more important than your convenience.
Wow someone in Washington with a functioning brain cell that could not be bought by special intrests. I take back all I have said about brain dead politicians.
Typical selfish surfers… it’s all about them. They just want fewer people on “their” beach and if millions have to sit in traffic, so be it.
You want answes? Here’s one…MOVE!
To Wake Up:
More roads =more developmenent =more traffice = static traffic problem
Less roads = less development=less traffic=static traffic problem
More roads is not the solution. Trains,buses, bicycles, and internet commuting are a better solution.
It is a good thing that I don’t live or work near the 5 freeway and have to worry about eminent domain taking my property for widening the freeway, or have to deal with the noise and road closures during the construction that should take years.
This is a good day!! Job well done, big pat on the back for everybody who helped with the “Save Trestles” cause!! Lets all be happy for a positive outcome, and thankful, this time, that the TCA might actually give up on this whole mess. And just because you lost your beloved toll road does not give you the right to be nasty. Stop spewing the ugly words, sour grapes is not very attractive at all!!
All of you people that say “something needs to be done”, how about you try COMMUTING with someone!! If everyone did it, you wouldn’t have to worry about sitting in traffic! With that said, I’m SOOO glad they made the correct decision and killed the toll road extension!!
Wake Up neatly avoids the points I’ve made, regarding this road’s lack of viability, the availability of alternative strategies, or the efficacy of toll roads in general – which is charcacteristic of toll road proponents. They prefer to make this an all or nothing game – you either agree with them on this specific idea and route, or you’re consigning our heir to sitting in parking lot traffic until they die.
He complains that Avenida Pico is congested already, thus making it unsuitable for use as an outlet for the 241. Pico, however, can easily be widened throughout its entire course from the foothills to the 5 – the only even marginally narrow stretch is next to the 5 and if we have to lose a McDonald’s, a Carrows and a couple of gas stations to achieve that, we’ll survive. The real objection here, of course, is that the traffic would came uncomfortably close to Talega, whose inhabitants regard themselves as living in an enclave and so above such tawdry things being near them as a highway. As a parallel, recall the good folks of Beverly Hills in the 60s rejecting the proposed 2 freeway along Santa Monica Boulevard through their town, because – well, you just don’t put a freeway in Beverly Hills. Think the folks stopped dead on the 10 through West L.A. would be sympathetic to that today? If the folks in Talega and adjoining developments (existing and proposed) want convenient high speed car transportation routes, they’ll have to trade off a little something to get it
From Pico on north, I-5 has plenty of right of way space on both sides to allow for widening, with minimal impact on or need to condemn adjacent private property. The ” loss of 800 homes” mantra, which assumes widening through the heart of San Clemente, is thus a red herring – you don’t have to do that at all in order to get the widening and traffic relief you really need through the area.
Downtown San Clemente – the south end of town – is essentially built out. So long as the Marines stay on the land at Camp Pendleto, there will be nothing south of there for twenty miles, and thus little if any major increase in traffic feeding into the 5 through that sounthern part of town. That sector’s traffic load, therefore, is essentially maxed out already. The new and additional traffic burden flows onto the freeway at Pico and Vista Hermosa, which draw from the newer developments like Talega. Not surprisingl;y, that’s also where traffic backs up (the presence of not one but two lane losses at that location only adding to the woes there). By simple logic, therefore, that is the area to focus on for widening or other traffic relief measures – not downtown San Clemente. And that’s where the 241, whether toll or free, belongs.
The proposed toll road was (I hope I can use that tense about it now) neither a good idea economically (it would not pay for itself as advertised, see the 73 toll road as a parallel example), appropriate environmentally (the mere idea of tearing out any part of a state park should give one pause, quite aside from the watershed issues), nor useful as a traffic congestion measure. I hope it is, indeed, very dead. Traffic issues do need to be addressed, but that process shouldn’t be the TCA “my way or the highway” (pun very much intended) ultimatum process.
All I can do is laugh at the whiners who complained about S. OC traffic. Move somewhere else if you hate traffic on the 5!
Hey Tom Jones,
I am against the 241 toll road and no I am not a hippie nor am I retired with plenty of free time to surf. I’m in my mid 40′s with a mortgage and bills to pay so I have to work everyday. I also have a college degree in Accounting for what it’s worth. So making any kind of assumptions about the people who are against the toll road shows how little you really know about the people who do care about what happens to our limited beautiful natural resources.
This is good news for everyone in South Orange County (except the developers and local politicians who whored themselves out for the toll road.
While the segment of the 241 from Oso down to Ortega (Cow Camp) would be helpful, the section that would go south through San Clemete State Park was completely unneeded and wasteful. Common sense and traffic endpoint studies show that that southern section would be very unused, not even sustaining a single lane in each direction from the demand point of view. Add that to the horrible financial mismanagement of the TCA (now asking for a $1.1 Billion bailout from the Feds) and this was a bad idea all around.
Thanks to everyone who worked hard to defeat this!
Locals rule DUDE!!! BAHH. Build it and they will come. That is what the surfers were more worried about. ITS NOT OVER, the majority will win…it will be built, just a matter of time.
haha…someone said “damn hippies”. You don’t have to be a hippy to love Trestles! I consider myself a conservative who loves the environment and wants to protect it. Anyone can see that the toll road extension was a dumb idea. How could it relieve traffic? How would it be “progress”? Hooray…the toll road extension is dead!!!
i invented the surfrider foundation.
thank god the surfrider CEO can continue to pay the company legal department….what? you didnt know it was his brother? his staggering annual salary.
sounds like a well-veiled, non-profit to me!
HYPOCRITES!!!!
after forty years of surfing that spot and others within a thirtey mile range each way, i feel that God has blessed us. I grew up surfing this spot and remember when long walk was a dirt path, i remember when el morro bay, scotsmans cove and chrystal cove were in this position, and we won there also. What future does So. Cal have with out any preseved areas? O h I guess we could all take our kids for a drive on the freeway without ever stopping to love what God has given us,maybe if the politicians would surf more they wouldnt be so on the edge, God bless, aloha and mahalo
Traffic is not that bad. Thank you to all the people who fought the TCA on this one.
As someone who has surfed there hundreds if not thousands of times, Trestles is a treasure that should be preserved, forever. But this fight was about more than that. It was about the arrogance of toll road officials who rip off the public with their exhorbitant toll rates, while running a failed business operation. This would be just another failed operation and a private road for the very wealthy at the expense of a state park (San Mateo) and a treasured surfing beach.
YES! YES! YES! YES! Good Job Surfrider and all the other Concerned Citizens who stepped up and made this happen. The fight to preserve and parks and coastline will never end, but this is a GREAT victory and should be celebrated by everyone that made it happen.
To all the toll road supporters: BUH BYE!
Now, go get some of that free Obama infrastructure money and build some mass transit…
Yea! Free Obama infrastructure money! Monorails and jet packs for all… For FREE!!! Wheee! Who needs capitalism?… We have Obama Claus! Business is so passe!
So… Will David Belardes have to give the TCA back the money that was given to him ?
Remember he told them the Indians won’t oppose the toll-road.
He made that deal claiming to be a leader in the tribe.
Well he got their money and he is not even enrolled in the tribe he claims to be a leader of.
Dohooooo!
If the TCA didn’t do their homework on him what else did they miss?
Thanks to everyone who helped fight against this pay per use road! my children will be able to camp and play in mother natures beauty. I am thrilled to hear The TCA took a MAJOR blow on this one and I hope they give it up and find a suitable solution. WE THE PEOPLE MADE OUR VOICE HEARD and I am proud to say I fought tooth and nail against this one and when I thought it was all for none Washington finally gets it right..
I am thrilled!!! My family and I camp at San Mateo at least once a month and go to Sano all the time and the thought of it possibly being destroyed was heartbreaking.
CONGRATULATIONS!!! The Surfrider Foundation, Save Trestles group and the public who cares about its environment and showed up at the meetings, who sent letters, and called, did a FANTASTIC job. We need to continue to fight to stop the TCA and their evil co-horts whenever possible.
The tyranny of the minority has finally been silenced. The TCA has been ramming eight-lane superhighways down our throat here In OC long enough. Perhaps we don’t live in an oligarchy after all. The argument of “traffic and stalled cars spewing smog” belongs only to those that don’t have intelligence and foresight to see that this superhighway would have multiplied that problem in a matter of years. God bless all those who fought so hard to save our coastal crown jewel!
Looks like Lance McClain and Tom Margo both got lumps of coal in their stockings from Carlos Guttierez and the lame duck Bush Administration. Next on the agenda, sustainable growth or retraction for Orange County so it and the TCA never try to build toll roads through a State Park in San Diego County. To the OC GOPers, be happy that President Nixon and Reagan are smiling from down on high today.
“Free Obama Irnfrastructure Money”??? Are you joking me? Those are my tax dollars! The better not buy a single bus with any of our federal tax dollars in OC. We already have hundreds of EMPTY OCTA busses pathetically swerving through our city streets. In Irvine, we even have an addditional waste of money called the “I-Shuttle” that no one rides.
They need to take that “Free” Obama money and improve our arterial system. Mass Transit will never work in Southern California! It is a huge waste of time and money!
Wherre is common sense guy now? I guess he got laid off this morning when his PR firm got their TCA contract pulled over the crappy job they did of selling the tollroad.
YES!
“there’s something happening here but you don’t know what it is, do you Mr Jones?”
what I like most about the efforts to keep the 241 Toll Road out of the San Onofre State Park is that it transcended political and cultural boundaries, brough people from all walks off life and all beliefes together under a common cause.
…and that is precisely what our country needs more of right now. a lot more.
Here are the facts as the US Dept. of Commerce saw them:
1.) 241 S. is not important for national security
2.) 241 S. has viable alternative(s)
3.) 241 S. is destructive to natural resources.
But TCA, a consummate beater of dead horses, will continue to argue their little used roads are “vital” to transportation even though they haul barely 9 to 20% of the traffic of parallel freeways.
TCA is broke. They’re sitting on $-hundreds-of-millions taken from local businesses and developers since the 80s, still woefully short of the $-billions they’ll need to maintain and update they’re 51 miles. They’re bonds are junk. There’s no way they’ll get the $1.1-billion loan they’re seeking from Fed DOT. They are a failed agency.
The business model– tollways surrounded by a network of freeways– is ludicrous. It’s time to demand these roads be freed up; as freeways they’ll actually begin carrying motorists, saving OC taxpayers $-millions in future freeway improvements.
Abolish TCA. Free the tollways!
Can anyone in this comment section honestly say they would take the toll road everyday to cut down their freeway commute if it is going to cost more than $10.00 a day? I would say it is a very slim few. So why build something that people arent’ willing to pay for or be able to use. Sorry, but with the way the economy is, nobody is going to be driving it because of the $$! It’s a joke that they say it will create jobs or ease congestion when people aren’t willing to use or pay for the other ones in the county that already exist.
i find it amazing the the people of orange county find it a necessity to put a toll road into our county in the first place to relieve their tension.
just because you have over-crowded yourself into a traffic mess don’t make it our problem.
my suggestions would be to.
1. buy a responsible vehicle. hummers take up way more room than you need to transport your 150 lb body around.
2, buy a motorcycle, traffic congestion would disappear if more people thought like the europeans. plus we have better weather here anyway.
rome is bad enough with traffic as they built that place a few years before henry ford made traffic a reality. they can not knock down houses like we prefer to do here. but, they get by. get over the car culture ego, you look ridiculous in that over-sized over-powered rig. seriously, you do.
3. take a hint from the asians, traffic over there looks like a mess, right? if you actually understand what is going on it is perfect, it flows. do away with all traffic lights and put in roundabouts. keep your head in the fact you are driving. turn off the cell phone and concentrate. when you are on the 5 don’t get in the fast lane and stay there — flow– like a river flows around rocks you need to do the same. i am amazed how many drivers have their heads ‘up and locked’. you are driving for pete’s sake…pay attention and don’t impede the flow.
4. plan you trips. simple plan ahead. do three of 4 things while you are out. then park it.
5. don’t plan to build toll roads into a county that despises your ways. we only put up with some of you, as some of you ‘get it’. some of you would build a toll road though your mother’s house if you thought it would help you get to the fashion island mall quicker.
6. walk, walk walk. smell the flowers, smell the ocean. feel the breeze. turn off the air-conditioner and get out of the 4×4.
6. if you do all of these things, the people of san diego county might actually stop in the o.c. and spend some of our money in your county. otherwise we will fill-up and barrel thu and leave you to you own fate.
7. chill out when you hit the county line. you might actually like it. come down for a visit. we will treat you with the same respect you will show us.
love, kisses and respect
san diego county
With all the foreclosures and layoffs I think traffic will not be nearly as big a problem as some of you predict in the future. The heard is thinning. All I know is there won’t be a silly toll road ruining the best wave in So Cal. To think, just so all you super important professionals can chug up to Irvine every day at 9 bucks a trip, this thing was even considered . Adios TCA and all you bitter folks. No road, no destruction of a natural treasure, just perfecto waves on big south swells. BTW, take the train if your going to SD, DUH. Go surfider and surfline..
What a sham. I agree with Tom, surfers have done a lot of the damage down there from wax , paint and trash on the on the ground. I have taken that walk many times to surf and it looks almost as bad South Central LA. And to lie that it would have caused damage to the point will come back and bite the environmentalists later. I also like how someone said take the 15 to San Diego, there is no traffic! There is someone who has never taken that route. And what about all of the fossil fuels burned by the surfers and campers that go there every day? And the ones that drove to the protests, don’t we count that? And really mathematicians, is it better to have another road and let traffic flow or hundreds of thousands of cars deadlocked at a speed a little more than an idle, the most inefficient speed for a vehicle. Well, what better idea geniuses? Or how about an alternate route for a major truck wreck like when that seeding idiot killed those three kids and they had to shut down the freeway? I know let’s build a “great park” instead of an airport, that’s smart! Idiots!!!
The Surfrider Foundation and Heal the Bay are only self serving Corporations themselves. I can’t wait for 5-10 years from know when Caltrans try’s to start taking houses and businesses, oh wont that be fun.
Good but how many more millions of dollars will the toll road company spend to push this down our throats. This would have been a terrible precedent to start building freeways through our parks which should be guarded and protected for generations to come.
Keep up the good work Surfrider Foundation!!!
The people who are behind the toll road are interested in building more homes in east San Clemente so people can commute to Irvine. Just follow the money..
Joe from the OC:
The road to Trestles looks like South Central? Wow. That’s just dumb. I guess in your perfect little world everything is sterile and boring. You sound like you need to lighten up or laugh a little. Thank god there aren’t too many people like you in this world.
This is great news! The state parks belong to the people, not developers.
No kidding, take that walk to Trestles and you’ll see nothing but trash from the surfers who also defecate and urinate along the way. The surfers are complete ghetto slobs who hid behind false evironmental claims about a pocket mouse. I hope they enjoy surfing in their own toilet.
This road was designed so that they could build thousands of new homes on the O’Niell land Northeast of San Clemente. Noone would use this road to travel from San Diego to Los Angeles. It would have cost way too much money and sends traffic inland away from L.A. Traffic going from San Diego to Riverside County would use the 15. The premise behind building this road was incorrect. The only people that would use this road are people in the San Clemente area who want a short cut to Corona and people who live in and around Rancho Margarita area and want to go to San Diego. The road would not have linked San Diego to Los Angeles and would not relieve traffic through South Orange County. The entire enterprise was planned so that the land adjecent to the road could be developed. Open your eyes all conservatives and hippies! The road was for future development and would have done very little, if anything, to allieviate traffic – which was its proposed goal.
First of all- this toll road would not have hurt trestles. Any of you who surf there know the bottom is big cobbles with only minor sand. Those cobbles are not from the modern San Mateo creek, they come from Pleistocene gravels in the cliffs and were transported during the last glacial periods. Thats why the break is so consistent and doesn’t move with shifting sand (same with Rincon, El Cap, etc…). Anyways, the point is, don’t blame the rejection on the surfers. They don’t know what they are talking about, but they are right to fight against this ridiculous project. The toll road was a stupid idea from the begining and this is a huge victory for California’s natural habitat, residents, and commuters. As earlier people have already pointed out, the toll roads that have already been built have done NOTHING to ease traffic. They only promote more development, encourage more people to move to unreasonable places (in terms of commute, fire danger, access, etc..), and ultimately increase local traffic.
So those of you that think this is a blow to traffic relief, think again. This is a victory for all of us OC-SD residents.
For me, it has been ten years of fighting to stop this.
“Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after another.”
~ Walter Elliott ~
We saved the titmouse! Yay! And the vireo, and the sacred grounds belonging to our Native Americans, and the beautiful habitat for many incredible species, and a state park, and a surf break, and a refuge from urban invaders, etc. All things far more valuable than a special-interest toll road that would barely make a dent in S. Orange County’s traffic.
It is amazing to read the ignorant comments coming from the whiners and losers who would support such an ill-conceived, fiscally irresponsible project. One toll road extension that would serve a very small percentage of East Orange County’s population would NEVER solve any traffic woes. VISION is what solves traffic problems so why don’t you put your energy into pushing your politicians to develop viable, sustainable transportation alternatives which will serve a far greater number of people and open up a whole new job market? Or how about pressing them to require responsible and managed growth instead of giving away valuable land to the highest bidder (and the first thing that would go up after that toll road would be a development that would pack another 50,000 people AND their cars into the area, BTW).
Whether or not you think ecological balance or the sanctity of a state park is too high a price for a special-interest road, anyone who looks beyond their own immediate needs should recognize the importance of re-thinking how we move people in this state. The TCA has already proven that toll roads are not the answer.
Joe and the rest of you folks who think surfers do more damage to the park than a behemoth, elevated concrete and asphalt freeway would prove just how extensive the TCA’s brain-washing campaign was- most surfers access Trestles by foot or bike and nearly everyone who visits this special place leaves it as they found it.
Congratulations to everyone who fought for this victory and many thanks to the Secretary of Commerce for staying true to the law!!!
AWESOME!!!!!
Trestles is one of premier surf breaks in the NATION, not just in California. People from all over the world come here just to surf there, and enjoy the trestles experience. It’s one of my all time favorite SoCal spots. It’s so sad that the TCA would even consider that route for a toll road in the first place – right through the middle of one of California’s most popular State Parks – and that they had so many victims duped by their “lack-of-details” marketing campaign. But, thank God, the educated and caring majority wins out this time.
Thank you so much Carlos Gutierez!
And to all you toll road supporters, I hear there’s a few toxic waste cleanup jobs available over in the south bay area, by Ballona Creek. You should go check it out – might be your kind of place. And L.A. has a TON of freeways, so you won’t have to worry about traffic there.
Well said, RLH!
“the majority will win…it will be built, just a matter of time.”
I hate to burst your bubble, but the majority DID win. Polls have shown that 67-71% of Californians are opposed to the idea of paving a toll highway through a state park. The 241 extension is going the way of the dinosaur. Accept it and move on.
The State rules the toll road unlawful, the Feds rule the toll road is unlawful, there is so much evidence the toll roads don’t work and don’t relieve traffic it is unreal.
Thank god the right choice was made. Abolish TCA so responsible transporation choices for OC can be made in the future! TCA is a waste of the taxpayer’s dollar and is costing US a lot of $$$ with their poor plans and determination to be above the law. TCA should be permanently banned from all courts of law on this issue!
Thanks to all the responsible citizens who stood up to this madness and both the California Coastal Commission and US Secretary of Commerce for upholding our laws!
“Free Obama Infrastructure money” was a joke people…sheesh. The country is broke just like our state becuase of unchecked DEVELOPMENT and unchecked SPENDING. If we had spent money on light rail 30-40 years like every other developed country did we would have it. But it’s California and everyone wants highways to their doorstep…
Quote from article.
“This is a terrible, bad decision for millions of Southern California commuters,” Amante said. He called the decision an “unbelievable, myopic choice.”“I’m stunned, frankly, that any right-thinking secretary of Commerce could make this disastrous a decision for this country, and for this region,” he said.
How does this tollroad affect the nation, please tell me. What a bunch of bull$@$t. Like someone in Ohio cares about a tollroad in California. This is a good decision for this country and this region because now we don’t get another major road project being slammed in our remaining open space. Now maybe someone from Ohio can come out and see what beautiful open space and state park we have here in California, and see how it might have looked before massive right-wing controlled overdevelopment took place here in OC. I say right-wing because apparently Mr.Amante feels that all right wingers are for building wasteful and destructive projects for profit just like he is. Good thing we have a smart environmentally sensitive and conscious president now.
I hope all you left wingers buy a home in Ladera Ranch, Coto, RSM.
You are all a bunch of “get-a-lifers!” You are also probably all home owners association board members dreaming of ultimately having some control over somone!
LOSERS!
Take your coveted Pacific Pocket Mouse/Monkey and go to the mid-west to beat your drum! HYPOCRITS!!! See what that “Pocket Mouse” defense finally got you at the Headlands!
Surfrider didn’t want the toll road since more people will see them smoking weed on their way down to Trestles! No other reason! They live in a friggin cloud! Most hold medical marijiuana prescriptions!
Most anti-Toll Road people are smoked-out hippies and their kids who don’t know any better.
They still roll in their very old VW vans that run on bong water! Maybe they don’t care about traffic since most of the wake up around noon, check out the surf, smoke a bowl and cruise.
Get educated, people!
NO TOLL ROAD SIT IN TRAFFIC SAN CLEMENTE 1 HOUR TO GET OUT AND INCREASING.
Sad day for workers and commuters — people with daily jobs and responsibilities in Orange County and San Diego County, not the incredibly selfish and unemployed in the surf line up and the anti-growth factions from outside the region who fought the road. The Obama administration is already talking about infrastructure and public works projects to help our country economically and otherwise. Here’s hoping they look at the 241 and the rest of Southern California. Big gridlock is on the way, with the greenhouse gas emissions and pollution that go with it. Here’s hoping we see decisions that are good for the majority — millions of Southern Californians — rather than a few unemployed, anti-growthers and non-profit organizations such as Surfider that have used the phony Save Trestles issue to fatten their bank accountants and pay checks.
What a stupid short sighted decision. Hope all you whiners enjoy sitting in traffic. This will come back to bite all of us hard.
Save what is left of the grace of South Orange County.
Let’s not become LA.
Good job to all of those who help protect this small part of OC.
that sucks. now i have to travel more distant to get from point A to B and i cannot do sight see that beautiful nature back their
Finally!
Now the other transportation agencies can quit screwing around and widen the 5 freeway like they knew they needed to more than a decade ago.
The TCA is just upset because they won’t be involved in the 5 expansion and won’t be able to charge tolls. This is an obsolete agency just trying to justify its existence by trying to build a new toll road… anywhere.
A real transit agency would be looking to the future for alternative options to move people, not necessarily cars. With gas going up and auto companies going down, the goal for the future should be to provide alternative transit options, like carpool lanes, rail, express buses, and other means that move a lot of people using less space to do it. The TCA is not the agency for this job.
Widening the 5 is a temporary fix, but doesn’t address the real need for functional transportation into the future. If we keep expanding freeways (and building unnecessary toll roads) there is no incentive for anyone to develop smarter, more efficient, and cleaner transit methods.
Walt was right 50 years ago folks, I WANT MY DISNEY STYLE MONORAIL!
Listen up all you pro-toll-road people; The 241 extension was NEVER going to eliminate, or even ease your OC traffic. Period!
When you write those kind of things, you just point out how ignorant you are of this case. It shows how the TCA’s [scary] marketing campaign brainwashed you, without you even realizing it. You’ve been duped!
The toll road would have gone through the mountains and foothills between Corona, and the far south end of San Clemente, at the north San Diego county border. AND, it would have cost $12 to drive on, one way, to drive only 16 miles. How in the world would that help traffic anywhere, let alone OC? It was a senseless road, with one agenda; more development. It would have provided access to unspoiled land, so developers could build more high dollar homes.
Also, the road would plow right through the middle of one of southern California’s most popular beach State Parks. Do you honestly want developers building private toll roads through the middle of protected public State Parks? What if it were your favorite hunting grounds, or golf course, or football stadium? What if developers suddenly wanted greater access from the 5 to their eastern Sierra land, and wanted to build a giant high priced toll road right through the middle of Yosemite? Would you be for that too? Developers don’t care what they mow over to get their way. That’s why we have protected land.
You think WE are the uneducated ones?! HA! It’s a textbook case; Developers want protected public land. Developers can’t have protected public land. Simple as that.
You might disagree with the majority, and you might wish developers could just go in and take protected public land whenever they get a whim, but I’m sure that future generations of recreationists – which will most likely include your own offspring – are going to be very thankful that the current anti-toll road people fought so hard to keep the developers from stealing away our great State Park, and ruining the lone place of it’s kind left in So Cal.
You can talk trash and call us anti-toll road people (the HUGE majority) names all day long, but you make yourselves sound so ignorant and hateful. I feel bad for you.
Stupid decision.
Just wait and see what happens when the 14,000 homes are built at Rancho Mission Viejo.
The toll road is a foolish route would have been built THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF A STATE PARK! Why in the world would anybody WANT that? Regardless of what it does to the surf, it paints a horrible picture of our ethics for future generations that we would pave through every last bit of nature to accomodate our bad driving habits. The people have spoken. Listen.
The Secretary of Commerce says we can just put the road through the middle of Talega, bulldoze 200 homes and have it connect to Vista Hermosa and La Pata.
Unless Talega residents can get a designation of “endangered” or “threatened” species, the Surfriders and Sierra Club members will celebrate the bulldozing of your homes.
Realistically, this just means that the congestion on I-5 will grow until its as bad as (or worse than) the 91 freeway today. Then in 2021, the lease will be up on the State Park and the road will be built then.
Let me understand your thinking, or lack thereof, you don’t want the road to go NEAR a state park or beach, but it is okay if it goes THROUGH 200 homes in Talega, which is the route the Sec. of Commerce wants, as indicated in yesterday’s decision. I say we get the Surfriders and residents of Talega together and let them battle it out. If the Commerce-preferred alignment gets built, I hope Surfriders live in the 200 homes that are bull-dozed!
Wow. San Onofre State Beach Park and Trestles sound like beautiful places to camp, surf and enjoy. A pristine park with immaculate campgrounds and abundant and unique vegetation and wildlife to see and enjoy. I will make sure to tell everyone I know in the Inland Empire about it. Even if we have to sit in traffic on I-5 it will be worth it. I hope to go there with tons of friends every week. See you all there.
time to put renewed pressure on Jim Dahl, San Clemente City Council Member [and former mayor] who once said “San Clemente is a world-class town and needs a world-class attraction. Marblehead is that attraction.”
and Marblehead Coastal sits empty today, all building halted due to the collapse of Lehman Bros where 100% of the financing came from.
funny thing is Marblehead site north of where Jim and TCa wanted the 241 to connect to I-5, so he essentially put his world-class attraction in a place where it would only increase the traffic on I-5.
check City Council agenda coming up, City Planning Commission just rejected the overblown Ralph’s Market redevelopment project on El Camino Real that would have required all sort sof zoning changes. but City Council has final say to approve, and Jim’s gonna be all about trying to make that happen.
JIM DAHL IS SAN CLEMENTE PUBLIC ENEMY #1 he’s just not good for the local community, but the conservatives voted him back in in Nov so it’s up to us to keep the presure on to halt all this ridiculous, outdated idea of endless growth.
how great would it be of the OC just kinda stopped where it is right now. wouldn’t all of you like that more than a more crowded OC? it can happen, but fisrt you all must face the reality the the housing market will never bounce nback to former glory and OC needs an economy based on something other than false real estate values.
Change is hard to handle sometimes, isn’t it?
Ted says “Stupid decision.
Just wait and see what happens when the 14,000 homes are built at Rancho Mission Viejo.”
the stupid decision was to approve 14,000 homes before a single road was ever approved, much less even a proposed route. the developers were counting on the 241 getting approved, then they would get their major road paid for by someone else.
just look at the 73 today. none of the development along it was there before it was built, and it has not eased tarffic on i-5 at all.
all you pro-241 folks sure think you are so smart and all, but your smug is feeling a little tarnished today isn’t it?
So, Commerce announces their decision early Thursday a.m. and the Surfriders pop a bottle of champagne and start drinking! That explains the 241 opponents perfectly. Surf, smoke, drink, shun responsibility, locals only. The rest of us have jobs to go to and don’t want to sit in traffic! We need to SAVE THE TOLL ROAD!
did any of you pro-241 folks ever see the TCA’s own printed materials that showed EIGHT viable routes on it? all of them did not involve taking out a single house. if you need help finding this I’ll get it for you.
a big reason the Commerce Dept rejected the appeal is because other viable routes are available, and there are routes that would not take out a single house.
and even if some houses and businesses have to go, well tear em down. a world-reknown surf break and adjacent State Park that can be enjoyed for free by every citizen in the world IS more important than 200 Stepford Wife wannbe McMansions in Talega.
smoke that!
I live in Talega and I’m furious that a bunch of hippies and surfers would rather I lose my well-earned house than a road be built that MIGHT be seen from THEIR beach. It has been proven that the surf break won’t change and the park won’t change, what will change is that more visitors will be able to get to Trestles, their “private beach.” Instead of “Save Trestles” we should start “Save Talega.”
There are too many people here! Some of you kids have to get out! No more destroying the beaches! The “Coto de Casa” freeway is a dead issue! Get real people – it would never have reduced traffic but it would have given the rich a private toll road and a certain Tustin elected official has been a bit too loud in his support, making you wonder if there wasn’t a bit of “pocket padding” for him?
So, Commerce announces their decision early Thursday a.m. and the Surfriders pop a bottle of champagne and start drinking! That explains the 241 opponents perfectly. Surf, smoke, drink, shun responsibility, locals only. The rest of us have jobs to go to and don’t want to sit in traffic! We need to SAVE THE TOLL ROAD!
Hey Ocgirle and traffic gets worse, and all you other cry babies who can’t handle sitting in traffic: quit your whining and think about who is really to blame here. Developers have built irresponsibly all over OC for the last few decades and look what we have to show for it: traffic, overcrowded schools, not enough infrastructure to support communities, etc. All you have to do is look at what happened to Yorba LInda during the fires a few weeks ago – not enough water pressure to support firefighters. If 200 Talega homes have to be razed in the name of saving a State Park I would say its worth it. Maybe the developers who put the homes in should have let the purchasers know of the mitigating circumstances regarding that route, because, I guarantee you they knew about it.
Hey Tracy….irresponsible developers, the Yorba Linda fires, water pressure…wow, you’re really pulling all arguements out of your hat and hoping they stick. By your comment, I can tell that you don’t deal with traffic and overcrowded schools on a daily basis. Have you really researched the road’s impact on the state park on your own, or are you just listening to the Save Trestles myth campaign?
Tracy…in case you are interested in the facts….
MYTH – TCA is running a six-lane road through San Onofre State Beach and ruining the campsites that are enjoyed by so many.
FACT – The alignment crosses a little-used inland subunit of San Onofre State Beach Park east of Interstate 5 almost a mile from the beach. The most popular campgrounds are west of Interstate 5, far from the 241. Plans call for keeping all sites open during and after construction, building pedestrian undercrossings to other park areas and adding a protective barrier to reduce traffic sounds. In addition, TCA will contribute $100 million to improve California’s state parks system.
FACT – The route for Foothill-South does not remove or damage any campsites within the San Onofre State Park. A trail from San Mateo Campground to the beach will remain open during and after construction. View simulations prepared for the project illustrate that any impacts to the viewshed are minimal.
MYTH – This campground will have a toll road within 250 of it with 60-foot sound walls climbing up canyon walls.
FACT – Sound walls near the campground will be a maximum of 16 feet tall. The campground is 385 feet from the toll road. As a result, it will have far less noise than the Bluffs Campground, which is 250 feet from Interstate 5 with no sound walls. A trail from San Mateo Campground and Trestles parking area to the beach will remain open during and after construction. Currently, Trestles visitors walk under Interstate 5 and the train trestles to reach the beach.
No OCgirlie, we’ve already won, so there! And all your FACTs prove that you’ve probably never been to San Mateo much less San Onofre or Trestles and simply can’t grasp the FACT that if one single toll road was allowed to destroy, diminish, or in any other way devalue a state park, precedent would’ve been set. But let me just repeat myself while you search for more TCA propaganda to cut and paste: WE WON!
You tollroad advocates are so quick to judge us who are against the tollroad. We are not a bunch of hippies who smoke bowls all day and wake up to go surf. We are people who work, have families, and like to get out once in awhile to enjoy the last of God’s green earth that we have left here in SOuth OC. I don’t understand why you are all for paving over our last open space and state park.. The reality is that if our politicians and planners put there head together and think of a good solution to curb OC traffic problem, it probably would include new alternative transportation solutions like light rail or other mass transit solutions. In order to reduce traffic, you got to make it convenient to get people out of there cars. Less cars equal less traffic. More roads equal more traffic. I don’t know why you can’t get that into your head. Less cars equal less traffic. More roads equal more traffic. Less cars equal less traffic. More roads equal more traffic. Less cars equal less traffic. More roads equal more traffic. Less cars equal less traffic. More roads equal more traffic.
Wes, it is not stupid, it is the truth. I worked the streets of South Central for four years and there are a lot of similarities between that trail and Figeurora St. And thanks for the insult, Merry Christmas!
I found more here if anyone’s interested
Doheny Long Board Surfing Association and the Coalition of Surfing Clubs wants to thank all those that have fought so hard to save Trestles. This is a wonderful step in the right direction to save a pristine coastal area that many enjoy and hopefully will be able to share with their children’s children. Thank you Thank you Thank you
The Trestles nude beach wouldn’t even be affected since the toll road would end about a mile before the beach. However, the traffic impact in the Coto de Caza/Oso Pkwy area and the beach area is what everyone was opposing. I am glad to hear there will be no construction and increased traffic! And at the same time the open space conservancy will be preserved!!
P.S. Sorry I meant the First comment the one before mine is on the right track…. We need a Less traffic not more!!!!!
Under Ryan’s theory, the way to reduce traffic nearly completely would be to tear up all the streets, highways and freeways! What a great idea! Let’s tear up all of our existing roads!
No roads anywhere mean no traffic! What a utopia this would be!
The toll road is a developers dream… More houses! Don’t we have enough?? Stop building and let competition for existing homes drive prices and the ability to live here. Have you ever actually used the toll road?? Going South on I-5 a logical person would not pay to drive up to the hills, pay again to turn south and then merge back into San Diego traffic. Duh! Did you ever consider that this Orange County bottle neck will just migrate to San Diego County???? FYI I-15 is in place for inland folks. BTW who gets slowed down in the morning due to the San Clemente Bottleneck. Nobody really. The traffic really only exists on Friday night South and Sunday night North. If we keep building freeways to keep up with traffic, more people will use them and the congestion will be back. Its a selffullfilling profecy. Why not figure out a way too get cars off the road.. Gee duh nobody ever talks about that….