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Navy: No toll road through Camp Pendleton
February 26th, 2010, 5:25 pm · 62 Comments · posted by Pat Brennan, science, environment editor
A possible new route for the Foothill South toll road through part of Camp Pendleton has been rejected by the Navy, sending Orange County’s tollway agency back to the drawing board to try to complete its toll road network. 
The Foothill/Eastern Transportation Corridor Agency began working on the new proposed route after state and federal officials rejected its previous proposal in 2008.
That road would have cut through San Onofre State Park, igniting fierce opposition from State Parks officials and conservationists.
The new proposal gets around that problem in a novel way: by changing the boundaries of the park itself. The new road would shift the northeastern park boundary to the west to make room for the toll road, then add acreage to the park’s southern section — overall, a net gain of about 14 acres for the park, which is leased to the state by the Navy.
“The lease has been modified numerous times,” said the toll road agency’s engineering manager, Paul Bopp, including in 1977 and 1985. “Ultimately, that’s how we get out of the state park.”
On Friday, however, the tollway agency released a copy of a Feb. 22 letter from Navy Secretary Ray Mabus to Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., rejecting the plan.
“Based upon the thorough review and the fact that Camp Pendleton training is already constrained by environmental and other restrictions, I have determined that the proposed new TCA route would unacceptably impact the Marine Corps’ ability to train and prepare for all contingency operations,” Mabus wrote.
The affected land, known as the Sierra Training Area, is used for improvised explosive device training, field operations and land navigation, he wrote; future uses could include training with heavy equipment and convoy operations.
Tollway agency officials said Friday they view the letter as an opening to discussions with the military about a possible Pendleton route, not a final rejection.
“It was designed as a talking point, a concept,” agency chairman Peter Herzog said of the new proposal. “Quite frankly this letter provides us with what we’ve been asking for. Now we look forward to getting the engineers down to work to look into those issues.”
He said the tollway agency would continue talking to the military and try to modify the proposal to meet their concerns. Other possible routes that don’t go through Camp Pendleton might also one day be considered, he said.
The tollway agency’s plan includes construction of a wall along the route as it passes through Pendleton, so that Marines could train on the site without being visible to motorists.
It is one of a series of intricate modifications to the road devised by toll road engineers to overcome the objections of a variety of groups.
Shifting the park boundaries, for example, is meant to eliminate objections to cutting through a state park. The engineers also propose linking to I-5 via tunnel to give the freeway connection a low profile, eliminating worries that an unsightly ramp might be visible from nearby beaches.
To forestall complaints about intrusion on the view from the San Onofre State Beach park campground, the engineers proposed changes they say might enhance the camping experience.
First, the 358-acre section added to the southern part of the park would include an area that is now off-limits to park visitors. Instead, they could hike through the area, a dry creek bed and former farmland.
And a berm along the toll road topped with native trees and other vegetation would screen the tollway from view by campers. Because of the trees, and because the proposed route was on the far side of the creek bed, it also would likely be inaudible from the campground, Bopp said.
“The trees on the roadway embankment would take care of the noise and the visual impact,” he said.
The agency even proposes placing power lines underground in the Pendleton training area to remove large transmission towers, improving the site’s safety and increasing acreage for training.
The new route still has a few difficulties as it cuts through wildland farther inland to connect to the existing 241 toll road, which ends at Oso Parkway. The agency’s suggested route would still cut through the Donna O’Neill Land Conservancy, likely rousing objections from habitat conservation groups.
The route also would pass close to sensitive breeding habitat for the endangered arroyo toad, though Bopp said the proposed route is far enough away to avoid disrupting the toad’s territory.
The original route for the Foothill South toll road was killed by the State Coastal Commission in February 2008 after throngs of protesters made their objections known at a commission meeting in Del Mar.
The opposition was led in large part by the Surfrider Foundation. Their studies suggested construction of the road could wash sediment downstream, possibly harming surfing conditions at the famed Trestles beach, although the tollway agency’s own studies showed the opposite: no effect whatever on Trestles.
The agency appealed the Coastal Commission’s decision to the U.S. Commerce secretary, who declined to overrule the commission’s decision in December 2008.
Since then, tollway officials have held some 125 meetings with community groups about creating an alternate route, including environmental activists and other opponents.
The tollway agency says Foothill South is needed to avoid future traffic congestion along I-5 in south Orange County.
“We still have a traffic problem in Orange County,” Bopp said. “The Secretary of Commerce decision has not made that go away.”
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This proposal sounds like a good, creative solution – it avoids the park!!
Did you read the article or can you read a map???
The new proposal gets around that problem in a novel way: by changing the boundaries of the park itself.
What is good or a creative solution about this???
Maybe you could read the article before you post about it??
Blah – if all the hard headed people like you would move back to the midwest, we wouldn’t have a traffic problem! how’s that for a solution?
Face it, the 99.99% of the population who don’t surf or use that crummy campground need efficient transportation. (and yes, that campground is a dump! I have driven through there on a summer weekend and there is hardly ever anyone there!)
Steve ~ It’ not about “hard headed people”; maybe it’s about “self”! Too many people own TOO many vechicles!! It’s about time people take a good look at the real tTRUTH about the problems. Looking at the “Problem” in a different perspective might give one the real “SOLUTION”! :*
It also looks like it makes the park bigger with more usable space near the San Mateo campground where my family camps. This could be a good thing.
I agree. Those against any new roads new to get your head out of the sand.
There is a problem, it needs to be fixed. Don’t be b*tching when the 5 is like the 91. Happy gridlock!
Right now nothing is happening and traffic will continue to get worse on the 5 till the freeway is completed stopped just like the 91 is all the time.
The people that whine and complain that no more building should take place are buffoons to think that doing nothing will solve all our problems. People will continue to come. The only difference between building new roads and not building them is the amount of traffic congestion. You want no roads, you get more traffic congestion concentrated on the roads we already have. You allow more roads, that increase gets spread out over the entire transportation system because more people are coming whether you like it or not. Putting your head in the sand will never solve any problem.
Right now nothing is happening and traffic will continue to get worse on the 5 till the freeway is completed stopped just like the 91 is all the time.
- This is due to the unfettered building – THAT is what needs to be stopped.
The people that whine and complain that public land should be taken for private enterprise place are buffoons.
People will continue to come – As long as you fools try to build up every last parcel and give the associated building jobs to illegal immigrants..
The only difference between building new roads and not building them is the amount of traffic congestion. – Wrong, this is due to building more housing, which new roads are precursors of.
You want no roads, you get more traffic congestion concentrated on the roads we already have. – There is no need for new roads unless you plan on more building. We don’t want more roads, we want the existing ones expanded (like the 91).
More people are coming whether you like it or not. – Only if you are allowed to build more.
Where will the water for these houses come from? More fines for the existing residents?
It’s time for zero growth in Orange County!
The road is totally not needed—- it is a complete waste of money— open a few more south oc streets that are still not completed and we’re done— this is all about fat cat development deals and the lame build build build dull-normal mentality—- give it a rest!
Get over it Orange County we do not want your congestion in our area. The Marines are here to stay and will defend our freedom, and we are very proud of them
Camp Pendleton is a Nature Preserve. Leave it alone. I am sick and tired of the upstart yuppies and pseudo riche OC snobs dictating life for a little inconvenience. The mission of Camp Pendleton and the stewardship they have shown for the land in the base is more important than some little preppy BMW drivings time in traffic
That’s right, it’s a Nature Preserve…”leave it alone”….except for the explosive device training, field operations and land navigation. And of course, the future could include training with heavy equipment and convoy operations. Now that’s the type of land stewardship we need!
brad – how is ‘spraying the land with uraniam enriched shells’ good for the land?
Well said Brad!
It’s hard to argue for this project when ignorant statements such as these are publicized:
“Because of the trees, and because the proposed route was on the far side of the creek bed, it (traffic noise) also would likely have been inaudible from the campground, Bopp said.”
Seriously? These are ideas proposed by “engineers?” Where’s the quantification? Where’s the parallel study? Or was all this “most likely” conjured up in a boardroom?
Homer…did you also happen to notice where the Marines will be conducting operations with convoys, heavy equipment and EXPLOSIVE devices? Maybe road noise isn’t the biggest problem for the campground…
Lets be serious. The San Mateo Campground is far cry from a tranquil location. If it wasn’t for the loud and obnoxious partying going on in the various sites, my family would instead have to listen to the I-5, the AMTRAK trains, the cars and trucks on Cristianitos and the sounds from the Marine Corps training across the way.
Finally, a Military decision I can agree with! I drive that route religiously from OC to San Diego- yes there’s traffic but it is anything but solid, even on the busiest of days i.e., rain or holidays, it moves just fine, -slow, but it moves. There is not any need for that damn toll road, other than profit. If people are so afraid of the traffic and still insist on driving that route the solutions are obvious: don’t drive it, leave earlier/later, move, or most obvious use Amtrak or Metrolink.
“It avoids the park”
LOL that is because the TCA wants to change the boundaries of the park to avoid the park.
Orange County does NOT need any more concrete. Preserve open space.
Yes, what we need is more traffic congestion!
Another brilliant mind at work.
Funny the last 20 time I drove the 73 it was completely empty, not flowing, not open, not sparse, it was empty. No one in front of me and no one behind and no one on the other side. The 73 proves that people don’t want to pay to drive on a freeway. And if I remember right, the deal was let us build a tollroad and there won’t be any building or disturbing of the open spaces along the tollroad. That lasted about 6 months and the massive amount of homes and business has killed most of CA wildlife. Do I care that you have to sit in traffic, NO, I’d rather see a rabbit run in a open field. Everyone claims they would use the tollroad but at $9 dollars a day, 5 days a week you find out just how many people are willing to spend that money.
Really? The last 200 times I was on it and it was bumper to bumper the entire way. Both sides. See, I can do it too. Want open space? Move to a place that other people don’t want to live. In all seriousness, if California owns the land lets keep it and keep it open but if the land is owned by a private or public corporation where do we get off telling them they can’t use it? but that’s a different topic I suppose.
thefloyd,
The 73 is a road that is losing money everyday and rather than assume you were lying we will just say your confused on what road you speaking about driving on, because you look like a fool claiming it was bumper to bumper. The State Park – STATE PARK is owned by the State of California, the land the base is on is owned by the Federal Government – FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. I was repeating myself since I don’t think you read the article or bothered to read the map which was included for people who have trouble reading. The State of Ca isn’t telling a private or public corp what to do with their land, the land in question is again I yell it, owned by the STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Lastly my grandparent were born in CA and we have watch people from all over the country come into to CA and pave it over for quick money. The reason people want to live in CA is the weather, climate, nature and ocean. Most people I know if they were offered three times as much money to move to Iowa wouldn’t do it, because of the beauty of CA.
Please bother to read the article before you throw in your two cents but since you didn’t I guess your opinion is only worth one cent.
Blah— maybe YOU should read the article closer after all your blow hard whining… the land is not owned by the state of California…. it is leased to the State Park systems. ….. so the land is all owned by the feds. And they change the lease of the land every so often so who in the heck cares if they redraw the lines…. where were you when they drew the lines in the first place. You are such a hypocrite… you do drive the 73 toll road that was built on open space and faced the same opposition for all the same reasons— so after all your whining here… you would just drive the new road too. California has so much open space it is ridiculous. You are just another one of the NIMBY people that are happy to irrationally believe that everything is ok because it is here already— but absolutely no further progress or development should be done because you are here now and all open space in your back yard is suddenly more precious and should be untouchable. Total greed.
Preserve this open space with flash grenades, improvised explosive devices and assault training with heavy machinery instead. I love it!
They just will not give up that stupid tollroad! Poor planning! This is not the East Coast, we here in the West don’t like them period! The 5 needs to be improved, who the heck needs a short cut to coto or rancho anyway. What was the county planning dept. thinking back when they approved all that housing in the first place? They had plenty of open space to lay out a FREEWAY before they built all of those subdivisions! Maybe they thought they could build them all first and not leave anyplace for a freeway so when the time comes the public will be so tired of the traffic they wont care if we just cut through the state park. Terrible Planning Period!!! Save the the famous surf break! Skip the “toll road”, this is the west coast not the east coast! Take your East coast ideas and beat it back there on the double!! Hate toll roads!! Never use them and they will die off!!
What are the options? Drive less? Improve the 5 – how?
I drive this route routinely in both directions and it’s not that big a deal to take the 5 thru south oc. In fact anyone going south from Costa Mesa or parts north can take the 73 toll road already and bi-sect part of the south oc loop to the coast. The folks that want it are in RSM or Coto and they chose to live aways from the freeways. That was their choice and they can make their way how they normally do southbound on any number of roads on their way to the 5. Big money is going to continue to push. All those of you who object to the extension of the 241 get back together and let’s fight this expansion effort. Their is too much sensitive habitat that will forever be lost if this goes through..
So much money and planning has gone into this toll road; it could have (and should have) been built by now. Development is coming people – want it or not – it is coming and GUESS WHAT?? Our roads are already screwed up with no where to go, so we need alternative roads in and out of our home. Look at what the toll road people have done with their projects so far – they have brought back many of the plants and animals that were threatenend and endangered. Everyone said they couldn’t do it, but they did. Do you ALL realize that this is a money maker, not for TCA, but for Surfider? They made millions during this whole debate and are ready to make more, so they’ll strum up as much lies this next time as last Should we start taking bets on when the first “stop the too road” rally will begin, or maybe the next slogan will be “Save Camp Pendleton. Stop the Toll Road.” Ha, a bunch of money making scam enviro-wannabes. This road needs to be bult. Send your ideas on what can be done to the engineers and the county; they will listen and it will be built, and we will use it.
Weezie, you might want to get your facts straight.
Story in LA Times: The toll road agency in Orange County is seeking a $1.1-billion loan from the federal government because of the drop in the number of motorists who are willing to pay to use the 73, 241, 133 and 261 toll roads.
As my colleague Susannah Rosenblatt explained, the Transportation Corridor Agencies already has $4.6 billion in bonds it’s trying to repay. As Rosenblatt pointed out, the agency’s own website says that current bonds “can only be repaid by future tolls and development fees, taxpayers are not responsible for repaying the debt if future toll revenues fall short.”
That no longer appears to be correct. The federal government, of course, is taxpayer funded.
So for all you people who don’t use the tollroads if this loan go through you will be paying for them. Instead of the money going to improve roads the State of CA owns you will be giving money to the tollroad agency who is in it for profit.
Yeah, drive less, most of you don’t have jobs to go to anyway!
I guess the project is on hold until the 5 Fwy breaks off into the Pacific.
I can’t wait to go camping at San Mateo campground and hear the IEDs, helicopters, convoys and urban warfare training happening two hundred yards from my tent. Ooops sorry about that rabbit in the field.
All this rhetoric is but a speed bump on the inevitable destiny of progress. The toll road WILL be completed and connect to I-5. It happens like clockwork. Proposal, Protests, Rhetoric, Completion.
I have a crazy idea. How about putting it on the open ground right next to the 5? And if it has to pass through a park to get there, bummer. People don’t want to pay for public transportation development, freeways, electric cars, or anything else. Well folks, if you decide not to choose then someone is going to do it for you.
It would seem that Peter Herzog has great difficulty in understanding the English language as used by Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus. Far from Herzog’s contention that it was a “talking point”, it would seem he does not understand that no means no! By “getting the engineers down to work”, he would seem attached the the old “make work” bureaucratic standard.
It is also clear that the proposal would decimate the Donna O’Neill Land Conservancy. This would be a blatant and dishonorable violation of a trust placed on the county by the donor! Hardly an encouragement to other potential donors in the future!
What is a mystery is why this project is “needed” when it would only eliminate a short distance on the IS5 from the current SR74 on-ramp.
I’ve lived in San Clemente for 25 years. We go to the beach just about every week. The inland part of San Onofre State Beach? Never. Not even once. The proposed toll road has no impact on the beach whatsoever. The park is just useless desert. The opponents want to block progress. They are still operating under Moonbeam Brown’s “Era of Limits” philosophy – or should I say illusion – the idea that if we don’t build it they won’t come. That sure has worked, hasn’t it? These are the same fools who have let millions of unskilled, pennyless, illegal aliens into California and put them on the all the free babies you can drop dole. Build the road. Deport the illegals. Give productive people room to do business.
Windfall, just because you don’t go to this beach no one else should?? If we deported the illegals we wouldn’t need to build a tollroads and as long you keep building they will keep coming.
How does building another road equate to progress?
Progress WOULD HAVE BEEN if sometime in the last 25 years, you had ventured outside your little beach bubble to explore the inland part of the park to increase your own awareness of the environment around you.
As for me, I recently traveled the length of the park recently from near Avenida Pico to the beach by bike and ran into plenty of other people along the way. But I wouldn’t expect you to know anything about it since in your 1300 (25yrs x 52 wks) trips to the beach
Not much progress comes from creatures of habit such as yourself.
I hope the Navy stays strong in its opposition. Once we start encroaching on Camp Pendleton the flood gates will open to civilian take over.
Camp Pendleton is necessary for military training and for our national security. As a south county resident, I think the USMC and the Navy are good neighbors. Even when I hear the booming from the exercises, I am not irritated but am grateful there are volunteers training to protect the U.S.
If the Friday freeway closure wasn’t enough to convince anyone that a desperate alternative is needed, I really don’t know what is going on through those people’s heads.
Crawling through Dana Point and Capo Beach was an absolute nightmare. We gave up and turned around before we could even reach the San Clemente city limits.
Man, these people piss me off! Who do they think they are that they can change the boundaries of a State Park? And what makes them believe State Parks and United States Military Bases are allowed to be taken for private gain and profit? The people in this “Agency” care about nothing other than gaining personal wealth and their self-inflated egos! I’m glad the Navy told them “No.” But, again, how tacky and how arrogant for the Agency to pretend that because the Navy responded to them, negotiations with the Navy are now a given. And the truth of it all is that any new road through that area will only cause more development which will be built along the new road. That will not decrease the traffic flow on the 5. More housing, more development = more traffic congestion. It has to stop somewhere.
It avoids the park? Your street avoids your house so maybe we should build double stacked roads on YOUR street. People love it when tha hassel is some where else.
Completing Avenida La Pata on the other side of town would be the better task to serve the area’s traffic requirements, and is more urgently needed.
TCA just doesn’t understand the word NO! This is the NAVY saying NO, not some tree hugger group. Anyone for the toll road going through this area, doesn’t understand the long term effects of urban development and its proven impacts to the coast. Research San Diego Creek and Aliso Creek to see the writing on the wall. The toll road system is just a secret sweetheart tool for developers/developments PERIOD, all at the taxpayers expense. Pack it up TCA!
The navy says no to a TOLL road, but how about a FREE way???
All we need is another highway to make it easier for more cars to get to the coast and clog it up. Try to find a place to park on a weekend not to mention the two hour line at San Onofre State Park. Yes, great idea, we need access for more people. If we’d restrict residency in California we wouldn’t need to keep building roads. Roads cost money derived from taxes. Our state is in a deficite and will be in a deeper one if we keep spending. The only ones paying for this road are the tax payers. There are very few commuters that go south to San Diego, it’s a route I take daily and traffic is light. Eventually they want to add an artery from Temecula to San Clemente which makes it easier for more people to get here. When will these beurocrats realize that polution, congestion, road maintenance, water shortage, fuel shortage, power shortage, unemployment, etc. are connected to the problem. Supply and demand. We keep supplying and the people and demands just keep on growing.
These topics always bring out throngs of supporters.
Why not complete the toll road and design it to end on the eastern end of Avenida Pico?
This would be no different then half of the existing toll roads. Add a 2 lanes to the Pico and you have your self a solution that has no impact on the park or the base.
133 ends on Laguna Canyon Road
261 ends on Jamboree Road
Although the bribe to the Parks Commission last year of $100,000 for a yes vote, in my opinion, killed this company. You cannot buy People.
The road is DEAD— is is not needed…period…
Our professional planners say you are wrong — the road IS needed. These public servants are responsible to ensure our essential infrastructure systems will work in the future to protect the health and safety, as well as, ensure commerce for our growing population. Believe it or not you can’t stop people from having babies. That is a fundamental truth in America. Last time I checked Sierra Club does not support population controls.
Hooray for the Navy! I would also speculate that one of the TCA desperados planted the explosive on the freeway yesterday to show how badly we need this road in case of an emergency. The only thing that will help is less people! Give it up already. Quit the development and the plans for 14THOUSAND new homes by Ladera Ranch and problem solved.
PS By the way who says more development is coming? If we vote all the incumbents out and thoroughly investigate the ties of those willing to run for public office, we will eliminate all the corrupt money grubbing people in this state. The developers are all tied to the city councils, boards, planning commissions etc. The citizens have figured it all out. Sadly it starts at our local levels through the state and up to Washington. The days of their unbridled, and often illegal actions are numbered. We want to keep the quality of our native California. We do not want anymore 40 story high rises etc. Build them on the east coast where they belong.
Get involved folks in upcoming elections. We need to institute, criminal background and credit checks and perhaps IQ tests would be good as well.
If the road was done by only union workers Obama might help. Also, the road should be a Freeway not a toll road. I hate paying taxes twice on something I already paid for. The state should stop giving special interest developers top priority over its citizens and deport illegals. End of problem.
Sparkle, are you aware that the all of the state park units — Trestles beach and the area south and east (including my family’s San Mateo campground) — are all part of your “civilian encroachment” argument? Do you endorse giving these lands back to the USMC when the lease is up in a few years? One could argue these lands that you and I recreate upon are essential for the training of our young men and women volunteers to keep them and our country safe. Is it time to be truly patriotic and sacrifice our recreation areas for our safety? Protect our country — give the park back to the USMC!!??
Sounds like a whole bunch of these comments were posted by TCA folks. What a bunch of EYE DEE TEN TEES!!!! The creepy TCA developers want to build that road for one reason, and one reason only, to open up a new area to massive development. If anybody believes otherwise, you’ve been duped! And if you believe that today’s traffic problems will be well served by that toll road, you seriously need education!
All anyone needs to do is look at history and the map included in this article. While growing up in Orange county, I can recall when traveling to South County meant driving thru hill after hill with barely any development. There was nothing on the hills behind Laguna Woods, nothing behind Mission Viejo, nothing much behind San Clemente High. Then along come the developers who crammed zero lot line homes on bonded land (ie Mello Roos) without any regard for the road infrastructure needed to support those homes. Local and regional city governments failed to analyze those needs as well or simply knew the impact and only saw $ signs (either in their pockets directly or thru the increased tax base). So what was the solution? Create system of toll roads thru additional open land to provide access to and fee revenue from the same individuals who purchased the homes in those new developments. Given really poor planning, they can’t make it profitable without charging an fee that in this economy, could be afforded by only a few. And the plan is to build another? Why? What would be the reason? It’s not just about traffic, which by the way, is not just driven by OC residents. It’s all the individuals and families coming from the north end of LA or further to do a number of things. Visit San Diego, go home to visit friends and family, commute to jobs, etc. Although the 5 does get crowded thru San Clemente, it’s the design of the freeway thru that section that is the cause, not the traffic load. As SBN said quite clearly, the entire reason for this toll road is to simply extend and open up the development potential for homes. A quick look at the map will show you that. Wake up. It’s all about money and how a select few can extract that money from the rest of us. A microscopic part of our community (developers, politicians, etc.) will benefit while our world continues to get smaller. So ask yourself, what happens after the road goes in and the developments spring up. Ignore the simple fact of all the foreclosed and vacant homes currently in the new developments around the toll roads themselves. Assume that the developments get filled with buyers. Do you think those buyers will not drive on the new road? All that is going to happen is a few people will get rich, a few people will get new homes and the traffic issue that is currently in San Clemente will simpy transfer to San Onofre at a 3x or more rate. Drop the emotion and look at the facts.
Herzog is completely insane. How brain dead do you have to be to try to ‘rename’ the State Park to build the same old freeway. Has he forgotten, or does he expect the Coastal Commission and the public to suspend our disbelief, over the fact the road would still destroy a land conservancy, native American sacred sites, environmentally sensitive habitat and endangered species? What drugs are these yoyos taking?
Disband the TCA, this agency is wasting too much time and money. Fix the 5!!
doubt the navy will let them go through their base.
Cynical~ You left off one more test the politicians should have to pass.. random drug testing. I’m not kidding!
It avoids the park but its still a TOLL ROAD! The big Promise?
So pathetic know your history and stop paying for the toll road..they have forced it upon smaller areas out in south county and are forcing the residents there to drive the toll road because the 5 is miles and miles away. They knew what they were doing.
Fix the 5 and enjoy free road driving.
Fight for freedom, how do you figure. People are forced to use the road when thy choose to move far from the freeway? that’s their fault. And it’s not like the toll road is the only option. Get serious now.